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Education (Curriculum) (CPR and AED) Bill: Second Stage Private Members' Business – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 3:45 pm on 8th November 2021.

Education (Curriculum) (CPR and AED) Bill: Second Stage

Private Members' Business – in the Northern Ireland Assembly at 3:45 pm on 8th November 2021.

Debate resumed on motion:

That the Second Stage of the Education (Curriculum) (CPR and AED) Bill [NIA 38/17-22] be agreed. — [Mr McGrath.]

Patsy McGlone Social Democratic and Labour Party

Members, we will resume the Second Stage of the Education (Curriculum) (CPR and AED) Bill. The next Member to speak is Chris Lyttle, the Chairperson of the Education Committee.

Colin McGrath Social Democratic and Labour Party

Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker. I knew that everybody had rushed to the Chamber to hear the end of my speech, so I did not want to disappoint them by not getting the opportunity to conclude.

Given that there has been a little bit of a gap, I will summarize. Thus far, I have taken the opportunity to detail why we need this Bill, the reasons that it will help people and how the out workings of this private Member's Bill will save lives. I will repeat that: it will save lives. I also detailed how all other parts of these islands have brought this measure in by legislation and that we are the only place that does not have it in that way. I also detailed a lot of the numbers and the background of the public consultation that took place. When I detailed all the information from the public consultation, I was detailing the voices of the public. With just under 1,000 people participating in that process, we have a duty to listen to what they said and to try to act in a way that meets the need that they identified.

With the figures as they are, we, as an Assembly, must act now. We must do more to ensure that CPR training and automatic external defibrillation (AED) awareness are a normal part of everyone's lives and that those who are trained have the confidence and skill set so that, should they need to go out and save a life, they can do so.

We are living longer, but we are not always living better. Smoking, a lack of physical exercise and obesity remain factors that we must consider. Poverty is still prevalent here, and, in the past, those who lived in the most deprived areas were identified as being more at risk of suffering from cardiovascular disease. Two years ago, the statistics told us that 10 people were dying every day in the North due to heart conditions, including cardiac arrest. Given that other countries have increased their survival rate from one in 10 to one in four, I believe that, by enacting this legislation, we stand a real chance of saving lives. We are dealing with life or death. That is bigger than any of us. It goes beyond the issues that are often a source of division and touches at the very essence of that which unites each of us: our common humanity.

In closing, I am proud to bring the Bill to the House for its Second Stage. I look forward to hearing contributions from all other sections, and if any clarity is required, I look forward to providing it. At the outset of my contribution, I mentioned that the figure of one in 10 surviving would work out at approximately nine MLAs. Taken in the round, in the full knowledge of your medical history and lifestyle, would you rather know that, should anything ever happen to you, every child who has come through our schools has received training in CPR and AED awareness? If the answer is yes, and you want to be a part of changing our statistics, I implore you to support this Bill.

Chris Lyttle Alliance

As Chairperson of the Education Committee, I can think of few more important matters to teach in our schools than the life-saving techniques of cardiopulmonary resuscitation and automatic external defibrillation. Northern Ireland can be proud that, in response to the deadly threat of cardiac arrest, the portable defibrillator was invented by Hillsborough man Frank Pantridge. That was one of the greatest innovations in history, and we must ensure that it can be readily and competently used by as many people as possible in his native Northern Ireland.

The risk of cardiac arrest and the power of competently deployed CPR and AED were, of course, broadcast globally during Euro 2020, when the life of Christian Eriksen, an elite-level athlete, was saved due to the prompt and competent implementation of those techniques. CPR maintained oxygen flow to Christian's brain while his heart could not, and defibrillation restarted his heart's signal. Perhaps it is worth noting that Eriksen's native Denmark has adopted mandatory CPR training in schools, and that has improved survival rates from cardiac arrests to one in four. Tragically, people in Northern Ireland who suffer a similar out-of-hospital cardiac arrest experience have a survival rate of one in 10.

Pupils in Northern Ireland do not have access to the same training and awareness that is provided across the rest of these islands. Over the past two years, England, Scotland and Wales have all enhanced their curricula to include CPR training in schools.

The Education Minister here announced on 21 September that CPR will be taught to Key Stage 3 pupils from the 2022-23 school year onwards. It is my understanding that the proposer of the Bill, Colin McGrath MLA, welcomes that development and is seeking to provide an opportunity for the Assembly to enact that commitment in legislation. The Member seeks to address this critical matter in a concise Bill, with one substantive clause that obliges the Department of Education to place training in CPR and defibrillation on the curriculum for Key Stage 3. The simple objective is to improve the survival rates from cardiac arrest in Northern Ireland. The Bill has enjoyed strong support from consultation, which found that 94% of respondents support compulsory CPR training in schools. Even higher levels of respondents believe that it is the Government's responsibility to ensure that that training is provided.

It is my hope, as Education Committee Chairperson, Alliance education spokesperson, a sports coach and a member of this community who cares for the health of my family, friends and constituents, that the Bill and the work of the Education Minister will provide pupils in Northern Ireland with the training and awareness that is afforded to other young people on these islands and empower them with the type of skills that saved the life of Christian Eriksen.

Time is critical in the context of cardiac arrest. I give my commitment to progressing the Bill, if passed to Committee Stage, in a timely manner and ensuring that the Education Committee and the Assembly play a part in improving the ability of this community to change the face of cardiac arrest survival rates in Northern Ireland.

Pat Sheehan Sinn Féin 4:00 pm, 8th November 2021

I welcome the opportunity to speak in this important debate. Sinn Féin will be supporting the Bill. I commend the proposer of the Bill, Colin McGrath, for bringing it to the Assembly. The Chair, in his opening address, covered comprehensively most of the issues that need to be covered, so, if I repeat some of them, I apologise.

One of the most important things that the Chair spelt out was the poor survival rates from cardiac arrest. There may be some misunderstanding of the difference between cardiac arrest and a heart attack. A heart attack is a result of coronary heart disease, whereas a cardiac arrest is when the heart stops beating. I had a good friend who collapsed and died recently. There was a defibrillator close to the premises where she was. The defibrillator was brought in and deployed but not activated because it detected that there was still a heartbeat; a verbal message came from it not to activate it. It is important that messages like that get to people who may have some basic training in the use of an AED but are concerned about whether they should use it. The AED is able to say whether a person's heart is beating, and, if it is, it will say not to use the device.

I know of other people who have had cardiac arrests. I have a good friend who took a cardiac arrest in bed. Fortunately, his wife arrived in the bedroom within a very short space of time, realised what was happening and, because she had some medical training, was able to use CPR until the paramedics arrived. She saved his life. He was brought to hospital and treated. Initially, it was thought that he would not survive or that, if he did, he would be in some way incapacitated or disabled as a result of starvation of oxygen to the brain. Fortunately, he made a full recovery and survived.

The evidence shows us that survival rates are much higher in places where more people are trained to perform CPR and are willing to intervene. Colin referenced Denmark in his contribution, but there are other places throughout the world where there has been extensive CPR training and a raising of awareness about CPR training. The evidence tells us that even a very short training programme on CPR can make a difference. In the time that a television advert lasts, people can be shown how to perform CPR and given that confidence. It is only when people have that knowledge that they will have the confidence to intervene in a situation where a person has had a cardiac arrest. I have heard it said that, given the litigious society that we live in, some people are afraid to intervene because, if they did and got it wrong — breaking somebody's breastbone or something like that — while performing CPR, they might be sued by the victim. There is no record of anyone who was intervening to give life support or help being sued, so people should not be afraid of that.

There have been attempts to increase the availability of, and access to, CPR training, most notably the 2014 community resuscitation strategy. That has been taken forward under the leadership of the Ambulance Service, which should be commended for that. There are many first responders, particularly in rural areas, who carry defibrillators in the boot of their cars and are ready to go at a moment's notice to intervene to save people if needs be. My colleague Michelle Gildernew is a first responder and has, on occasion, had cause to use the AED.

There is no doubt that lives have been saved by the training that the Ambulance Service has been giving to groups and organisations. I understand that Sport NI will be rolling out training as well. As well as CPR being a mandatory part of the school curriculum, we need a whole-community response, where others in society have access to training, particularly in CPR but also in the use of AEDs. It is only when the whole of the community is trained in this area that we will see an increase in the survival rates. There is a massive difference between one in 10 surviving and one in four surviving. There is no reason why we cannot reach those figures if we roll out a proper strategy and children are trained in school on how to do this.

Chris Lyttle mentioned what happened to Christian Eriksen at the Euros, which we all remember, but, even closer to home, people have survived cardiac arrest on the playing pitch. Kevin McCloy, the former Derry footballer, had a cardiac arrest whilst playing for Lavey in a club match. He gave thanks to the people who came onto the pitch and gave him CPR. There was a defibrillator there as well. That was there because of the high-profile campaign after the death of Cormac McAnallen, the former Tyrone all-Ireland-winning captain, who also died as a result of a cardiac arrest.

I support the Bill. It is very important, and I am sure that it will get support right across the House.

Photo of Robin NewtonRobin Newton DUP

I welcome the Member's Bill. It is probably the shortest Bill ever to come before the Assembly. I welcome the fact that it is an extremely focused Bill, which requires cardiopulmonary resuscitation training and automatic external defibrillator awareness, focusing in on pupils in years 8, 9 and 10 — the 11- to 14-year-old age group. Hopefully, those skills might be carried on into later life.

For personal reasons, I have huge empathy with the sentiment of the Bill. I was approached by the British Heart Foundation a number of months ago at a time when I had just lost a friend to a heart attack, so I was keen to support it. With the foundation's agreement, I wrote to the Minister on the matter, and she responded very positively and did some work with the British Heart Foundation in the grounds of this very Building.

I had some notes on Christian Eriksen, but I will not go into his case, as it was well covered by the previous two contributors. However, the statistics are concerning in that, in the case that was referred to in Denmark, one in four people who have a heart attack survives because of action by folk, yet, in Northern Ireland or GB, one in 10 survives. We should be concerned about that, particularly since Professor Pantridge did all the necessary research and development of the defibrillator. He came from our small community here, and his work is now recognised worldwide in that field.

In my friend's situation, he collapsed in a public area. He was in a group of between 25 and 30 people, and no one was able to do anything except dial 999 for an ambulance. He was a gentleman who did not smoke or drink and took a lot of exercise, including long walks, so the physical indicators were that he was healthy, but he had an underlying problem that no one knew about. He lived for 10 days after the heart attack, and all the indications were there that, if support and attention had been available and if the group had had the skills, he would have survived and returned to full health and strength, but that was not to be the case.

We would like to see training in our schools, but that is just one step. Defibrillators are all over my constituency, but I do not know where they are.

I know where one is, but I have no idea where the majority of them are. The recent call for a register of where defibrillators are across Northern Ireland, and the need to maintain that register, is a positive step. Schools are one area, and a number of sports clubs have taken up the matter. Whether it is football, swimming, rugby, tennis, GAA or whatever, we need to know where defibrillators are and where training is available for folk.

I will make some general points in support of the Bill. I know that the British Heart Foundation was pleased with the Minister's response. I am sure that it will also be pleased with Mr McGrath's response. We do not prescribe what is compulsory in the curriculum. In many ways, we trust teachers to schedule the lessons, cover the content and, indeed, meet pupils' learning needs in any area that the curriculum covers. We determine that on the basis of teachers' skills, knowledge and experience in that area. I am pleased that there is already a foundation to be built upon. Life skills in first aid, which includes CPR, are already covered in the curriculum, as, indeed, are qualifications in personal development and mutual understanding. The subject of CPR is covered at primary and post-primary level. Therefore, there is a foundation there on which to build.

We recognise the importance of this issue. The statistics are there, and I am sure that many in the Chamber have had similar experiences to mine. We remain supportive of efforts to increase awareness and develop skills in schools and across society. I welcome the work of the British Heart Foundation. It undertakes extensive work and provides extensive support in schools. I recognise the immense value of those life-saving skills.

Photo of Robbie ButlerRobbie Butler UUP 4:15 pm, 8th November 2021

I support the Bill at this stage and congratulate the Member on bringing it to the House. I thank the Minister for taking the issue seriously and indicating that she, too, is prepared to do something. In light of Mr Allister's contribution earlier, I am minded that, at this stage, we have to push through every legislative opportunity that we can, the reason being that, at times, we have found these institutions to be not the most stable of places. That is why we must avail ourselves of every opportunity to do what we can whenever we can. That is not a poke at anybody; it is just the reality of politics in Northern Ireland.

Before I move on, I want to touch on something that Mr Newton has just shared. It was rather exceptional. He made a really important statement, and he used the word "if" in what was kind of a rhetorical question. When we do or discuss anything here, it is important that we go back into the detail of the what, why and how. In this instance, when we are talking about something that pertains to life and death, that has absolute importance. I thank Mr Newton for raising the issue of "if", because I had not thought of it. I was not here last week because, sadly, my wife's sister died. I pay tribute to my wife's sister and thank all Members who reached out. Even in that moment of grief, my wife's family and I — indeed, most of us — will say, "If only we knew", "What could we have done?" or "If we had tried —". I will not go into the details of her death.

When we look at what can be done for something such as cardiac arrest, however, we see what was done for Christian Eriksen, who was talked about earlier. Over the years, in this country and across these islands, we have heard of many young footballers whose heart stopped on the pitch. Some of them, sadly, lost their life for a variety of reasons, whether that was an unknown congenital heart defect or some other issue, but their heart stopped. In reality, if we had known better, and if we had had the substance and the resource, perhaps they would still be with us. It is never time to stop learning and improving on what we know.

To give some background as to why it is important to target that type of information, training and skills at young people, I think back to when I was in the Fire and Rescue Service . The fire safety education programme, which I have talked about many times in the Chamber and will keep talking about because it is so valuable, was introduced just over 20 years ago. The target audience for it is primary 5. It was assessed at the time that primary 5 presented a good opportunity and was an appropriate age at which to introduce something as important as saving life and the dangers of fire. It was not a matter of saying, "These young people are not old enough to know and understand". If we look at what has happened over the past 20 years, we will see that the number of accidental fire deaths and accidental fires has gone through the floor. That is a testament to "Education, education, education". The more that we can do and the more information that we can entrust our young people with, the better that their life outcomes will be.

I do not know whether the Bill sponsor will wish to pick that up, because the Bill talks about Key Stage 3 pupils. When speaking to the representatives of the British Heart Foundation in Northern Ireland who were upstairs, I quizzed them a little bit about how they picked their target age. The World Health Organization perhaps indicated that it should be Key Stage 3 pupils, but I say that there may be something that we can do in our primary schools to inform pupils in P5 and P6.

Mr Sheehan made the point that it is not just about schools but about whole communities. He is absolutely right. One of the benefits of the fire safety education programme was that, when pupils in P5 were given a safety pack featuring different heroes and including stickers, they had to take it home and talk about it with their parents or carer, their granny and grandad, and their brothers and sisters. There is then cross-pollination, and that is a fun thing. Education and learning, especially at that age, can be addressed in a fun way, and the outcomes can be absolutely brilliant. I would love to see the statistics about the one in 10 figure go through the floor, just as they have done for accidental fires and accidental fire deaths.

The Education Committee Chair, Mr Lyttle, and, indeed, Mr McGrath, paid tribute to that great Hillsborough man Frank Pantridge. I encourage Members to read up on Mr Pantridge. He is an incredibly important man for probably millions of people across the world, and he is someone of whom we can be very proud. Coming from the Lagan valley, I am proud to associate myself with the area from which the great man came.

When you read about Frank, you learn that part of his desire to do what he did came from his own illness. He was a prisoner of war, and he had a cardiac condition. His ingenuity knew no bounds. The first defibrillator that he made weighed 70 kg and ran on car batteries, but, within three years, he had brought its size down to something portable that weighed only 3 kg.

His passion was saving lives, and there is no cause more noble than that. We should thank him. I suspect that his family would be very proud to know that we are trying to continue his legacy and to implant it in our young people in order to equip them with the same passion and vision that Frank Pantridge had all those years ago.

I will speak no more on this. I hope that the House will unite behind the Bill today.

Photo of Patsy McGlonePatsy McGlone Social Democratic and Labour Party

I am sure that everyone in the Chamber will share my expression of sympathy to your wife on the death of her sister.

Photo of Nicola BroganNicola Brogan Sinn Féin

First, I offer my condolences to Robbie and his family on the death of his sister-in-law. I am very sorry to hear that.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate as Sinn Féin spokesperson on children and young people, and I thank the Bill sponsor for bringing this important legislation to the Assembly. The training will have huge benefit not only for the children and young people who might suffer cardiac arrest and the older people who are more generally affected by it but for those who learn from it and increase their confidence about how to approach such medical emergencies.

In recent days, we have seen children and young people coming together to challenge climate change and, in doing so, take action to save lives. In a way, this Bill hopes to do the same. Its intention is to mobilise the agency of young people by giving them the necessary tools to intervene and save lives in the event of a cardiac arrest. Within the relatively small population in the North, around 1,400 cardiac arrests take place every year outside of a hospital setting. In the event of a cardiac arrest, there is a very small window of opportunity to save someone's life. Every minute without trained intervention reduces the chance of survival by up to 10%, and that is why it is vital that training and equipment become more available to the general population.

Currently, the survival rate here sits at one in ten. However, in parts of Europe where CPR is taught in schools, survival rates are reported to be one in four. The significance of teaching CPR in schools has also been recognised by the World Health Organization, which endorsed the Kids Save Lives statement. Teaching young people CPR as part of the school curriculum and providing them with the skills to resuscitate people in cardiac arrest is a tried and tested intervention that also empowers young people to be active and engaged citizens. Having acquired those skills, young people can take that beyond the classroom into their homes and the wider community.

The vast majority of cardiac arrests take place in the home, a setting where young people are well placed to make a difference, not only through direct intervention but by sharing their new skills with other family members, which then increases the number of people in the community with the skills and confidence to intervene and make a difference. Jurisdictions right across these islands have already committed to teaching CPR as part of the general education of young people. I hope that the Bill progresses. I will support it as it moves to Committee Stage.

I have a couple of other points that I want to raise with the Bill sponsor. Maybe it is something that we can discuss further if the Bill makes it to Committee Stage. As part of my previous employment, I received annual CPR and AED training. The Bill could go further and ensure that the CPR and AED training for children and young people is annual. Although my workplace was a medical practice, I was not on the front line. Thankfully, I never had to use my training, but I needed a refresher every year. Maybe we can look at that.

Secondly, can we extend the CPR and defibrillator training to basic life support? Say, for example, somebody who has epilepsy; if they take a seizure, how do you deal with that? If a diabetic person goes into a hypo, what is the best way to cope with that? There are other things that could be explored to improve the piece, but I am happy to support the Bill and I hope that it reaches Committee Stage.

Photo of Diane DoddsDiane Dodds DUP

Like many others across the House, I support the Bill at Second Stage. Many have quoted today that every minute without CPR and defibrillation reduces a person's chance of survival by up to 10%. If we can give confidence and help to young people in dealing with emergency situations, that is an excellent thing.

I also want to acknowledge the work of very many groups across our community and, indeed, my constituency that offer CPR training on a regular basis. Over the past few weeks, I have been involved with a mental health charity in my community that has just received additional funding to give CPR training throughout the Armagh City, Banbridge and Craigavon Borough Council area. I commend not just schools and teachers and what we are trying to do with the Bill, but those community groups that reach out on this very important issue.

Again, many have quoted the statistic from a recent survey by the British Heart Foundation. Of those who responded, 97% felt it was important that pupils left post-primary school with CPR skills, and 90% agreed that CPR training should be made compulsory.

That gives weight to the idea of embedding CPR training in the curriculum, and that is important.

I support the Bill, but we should acknowledge that the Minister has moved to ensure that CPR training at Key Stage 3 is part of the curriculum from September 2022 and that additional funding has been secured to make sure that that is possible. Further work is being done not only with the Education and Training Inspectorate (ETI) but with the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment (CCEA) and the Education Authority (EA) to make sure that there is proper inspection of the curriculum and that they take forward the development and dissemination of the appropriate support materials for young people.

I remain supportive of the intent of the Bill. I look forward to its Committee Stage, but I acknowledge the work that has been done to ensure that the facility is already available to children and young peopl in the education system,

Photo of Daniel McCrossanDaniel McCrossan Social Democratic and Labour Party 4:30 pm, 8th November 2021

I speak as the SDLP education spokesperson and as a Member for West Tyrone. I fully welcome the Second Stage of this significant legislation. I thank my party colleague Colin McGrath for bringing it forward. It has united the House, and, hopefully, we will see swift passage for it. The benefits of it for many will be very significant.

Since I have known him, the Member has been a massive advocate and campaigner for CPR and policies relating to defibrillators across the North. I take the opportunity to thank him for the work he is doing and for bringing to the House this potentially life-saving legislation. I also make special mention of Fearghal McKinney of the British Heart Foundation for the work he has done not only in his current role but as a former Member. He is solid on and passionate about the issue.

As other contributors have said, we all saw the horrific scenes earlier this year when, during the Euros football tournament, Christian Eriksen suffered a cardiac arrest. It was important that timely treatment was given, and it ultimately saved his life. That brought a stark focus to the importance of CPR and AED training globally and to whether we do enough here to save as many lives as possible when people suffer cardiac arrest.

I was shocked to learn that, of around 1,400 people who suffer cardiac arrest, only one in 10 survive. That is a shocking figure, and it really brings it home. Unfortunately, just before COVID, I witnessed a gentleman who was sitting just over from me at Mass take a cardiac arrest. It was a shocking thing to witness, let alone experience. A lady who was sitting not too far away acted swiftly and carried out CPR until the trained medical professionals of the Ambulance Service arrived. She also administered the AED, which helped massively. Thankfully, the gentleman survived, but, without that lady's swift actions, I do not believe he would have.

Following from what Pat Sheehan said, often when such events happen, people are in a state of shock and do not know what to do. The best thing you can do is act, and that is critical to saving an individual's life. Cardiac arrest is traumatic to see and watch, particularly if you are not entirely sure how to carry out CPR. It is straightforward to learn, and people should make every effort to have that training, because you never know when someone in your household or elsewhere will be impacted in that way.

It is concerning that research conducted by the Resuscitation Council shows that only half of people would intervene if they came across someone suffering a cardiac arrest. That is mainly due to a lack of confidence in administering the life-saving aid. That touches on the point that I made. Thankfully, throughout our communities — Robin Newton touched on this — there has been huge community investment in raising funds for AEDs. They can be seen in all of our constituencies. They appear in rural areas, in places where crowds gather. Following the experience that I have shared, the community quickly moved to raise funds to put a defibrillator at the chapel. That shows the response of the community.

Robin highlighted an important point. It would be good to see a register of defibrillators and where they are located, because, in the moment, your mind goes blank, as mine did that day. Even though you pass them and see them everywhere, your mind goes blank. You are in a state of flux, and you ask "Where do I go to find one?". That was a helpful suggestion.

In recent years, we have made great strides with training, education programmes and awareness-raising campaigns. There is a greater awareness, but more needs to be done. This legislation will help to give a greater understanding of the importance of acting in that critical moment, but we are missing a key part of the jigsaw. The SDLP believes that the greater emphasis on CPR and AED training in education settings is critical. I thank the Minister for moving on that — not that she was not moving before. She has been very good on the issue, and we thank her for it.

The Bill will not only help educate our younger people but give them a true life skill that will empower them to react and take important actions when it comes to potentially saving a life, especially the life of a person who suffers cardiac arrest outside hospital. It could be a family member, a close friend or even a stranger that they may come across. Research has also shown that in countries where basic life-support skills are taught in schools, survival rates for cardiac arrest have increased significantly — two or three times higher — when compared with countries where they are not taught. The research points to Norway, some US states and North Holland, in particular, where we have seen significant increases in survival rates over the past decade as a result of such action.

Given that, it is no surprise that we have recently seen action being taken on these islands to increase CPR and AED training in our schools. In England, CPR training has been introduced as part of the health education curriculum in secondary schools; in Scotland, every local authority is committed to teaching CPR in schools; and, in Wales, legislation has been enacted that will ensure that CPR will be taught in schools from next year. Yet, the North has been falling behind in mandating CPR and AED training in our schools, but it is being welcomed, as touched on by the Minister, and I am delighted that the House is in full support of ensuring that it will become mandatory in schools.

The Bill will add to the great work already undertaken by the many charity organisations and community groups that have campaigned tirelessly over the years on CPR and AED training. I put on record my thanks to the British Heart Foundation, in particular. The work that it does is amazing. I had the privilege of being trained in CPR by it today. I also thank St John Ambulance and all of the other groups involved in training and raising awareness. The Bill is significant as a public health initiative that will ensure that our young people are equipped with the knowledge and skills necessary should they encounter a cardiac arrest. It will also help drive up survival rates, increase the likelihood of people being treated swiftly and, ultimately, save lives in communities across the North.

It is also important that people be educated on the symptoms. Many people do not get a warning. A cardiac arrest can just happen, and, unfortunately, it happened in the cases of my two grandfathers. Both of them died from a cardiac arrest: one in hospital and the other at home. Unfortunately, they could not be saved. It is vital that we educate society on what the symptoms are. There is a myth that you might be too young to suffer a cardiac arrest or a heart attack. The reality is that age does not matter. I have seen healthy, younger, active people go into cardiac arrest and not survive; others had slight symptoms of chest pain and did not get checked; and others had signs of sorts and did not go to be seen. If you have any symptom or signs, it is critical that you are seen and receive immediate medical intervention, because, if you do not, something might happen, by which stage it may be too late.

I welcome the Bill; it is close and important to me. I want to touch on the fact that many people in our society live alone and are worried about what to do if they take a cardiac arrest at home. In my constituency offices, we have helped many people in those situations with a Careline alarm. Careline is a great organisation that puts a box into people's hallways with a big red button and a speaker system and gives them a pendant or two. That alarm is critical in the event that anything, not just a cardiac arrest, happens to someone who lives alone. Those alarms have saved lives. People who were not feeling right have managed to hit the button, and, ultimately, they received medical intervention or family members or others have arrived at the scene at that critical moment.

I welcome the Bill. I am proud that it has been brought to the House and of the work that my colleague has done. I am also proud of the Members who have united on this critical issue.

Photo of Paula BradshawPaula Bradshaw Alliance

I will say a few words on the Bill as the Alliance Party health spokesperson. I thank the Bill sponsor, who is a fellow Health Committee member. The Bill will be a worthy piece of legislation when it is passed. I also thank the British Heart Foundation for its work to promote the potential benefits of what the Bill includes.

My contribution to the Second Stage debate will not take long. I appreciate that the Bill sponsor indicated that the financial effects will be minimal. As Back-Benchers, when we introduce private Members' Bills, we have a duty to ensure that the financial impact is kept as low as possible.

I put on record my acknowledgement of the role of Northern Ireland and Queen's University Belfast, in particular, in the development of the portable defibrillator. It is estimated that that invention has saved millions of lives, yet, as the Bill sponsor rightly pointed out, many others are not saved, because people did not have access to one.

Mr Sheehan mentioned the potential for the Bill, when it becomes an Act, to be a catalyst for the wider availability of defibrillators and training in the community. As someone in a position of responsibility in a sports club in Carrickfergus, I can say that we, as committee members, are conscious of not only the sport but the health and safety and risk management of players, volunteers and spectators. It is welcome that we are dealing in the Chamber with an issue that really impacts on our communities.

One issue with the Bill that jumps out at me relates to the options considered. I wonder whether the Bill sponsor, in his response at the end of the debate, will address the issue of there being two options: do nothing or pass legislation. Mr Allister referenced the potential for CPR and AED training in schools to come forward as a policy change by the Department of Education. I want a bit more information on that.

That is all I have to say. I endorse the Bill and look forward to working with the Bill sponsor and others as it progresses.

Photo of Patsy McGlonePatsy McGlone Social Democratic and Labour Party

There was another Member who wished to speak, but he is not here. I will move directly to inviting the Minister to respond.

Photo of Michelle McIlveenMichelle McIlveen DUP

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I offer my condolences to the Member for Lagan Valley and his family on the passing of his sister-in-law.

Before I begin my response to the debate, I want to mention the story of Clare Hamilton and Melissa Doyle. Melissa was taught CPR by her school nurse in Fort Hill Integrated College in Lisburn. In what must have been her worst nightmare, she had to put that training to use in real life when her mum, Clare, suffered a cardiac arrest at their home. Melissa's quick actions and the training that she had received undoubtedly saved her mother's life. I had the immense privilege of meeting Clare and Melissa when, with the British Heart Foundation and the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service, I launched my Department's CPR programme in September. That programme will mean that all post-primary pupils in Key Stage 3 will receive CPR training from the start of the next school year. Melissa and Clare are real people with a real and moving story to tell. Theirs is a clear example of the importance of being trained in CPR at school. Put simply, it saves lives.

As a former teacher, and having been trained in CPR, I truly understand how vital it is. I therefore thank the Member for South Down for giving the Assembly the opportunity to discuss the matter and for recognising the work that has been undertaken in the last few months and my genuine commitment to it. I acknowledge the support from across the Chamber today for CPR training in schools. The proposed Bill would place a duty on my Department to make CPR training and awareness of the use of defibrillators a compulsory part of the statutory Key Stage 3 curriculum. I fully agree with the principles of the Bill and am fully committed to ensuring that all children receive CPR training in our schools. However, as I will set out today, that work is already being implemented.

At the outset, I pay tribute to the wonderful work that has been ongoing in our schools. Many thousands of young people have been and are currently receiving CPR and defibrillator training as part of the curriculum. The British Heart Foundation provides a range of resources and supports for schools through its Call Push Rescue programme, which is designed to build capacity and expertise in CPR training across our education system. The Northern Ireland Ambulance Service has also invited schools to participate in its Community of Lifesavers education programme. We are not at a standing start: many of our schools have led the way in providing CPR training over many years.

Today, I will set out for the Assembly the current approach that my Department is taking to ensure that all pupils receive CPR training. My Department wrote to schools on 20 September setting out its expectation that, from September 2022, CPR training will form part of the Key Stage 3 curriculum. I fully agree with the Member for South Down that an opt-in system is not sufficient, and that is not what is being introduced. CPR training will be part of the delivery of learning for life and work in all our post-primary schools. That is the ideal context for learning first aid and CPR.

Learning for life and work provides opportunities for pupils to develop practical knowledge, alongside the skills and attributes necessary to put such knowledge into practice in a real-life emergency; for example, through the development of self-confidence and empathy and learning to identify and manage risk. I have asked schools to consider introducing CPR training during the current academic year, if at all possible. From September 2022, the Department will then expect all Key Stage 3 pupils to receive CPR training as part of the curriculum. That expectation will be reflected in the Education and Training Inspectorate's safeguarding pro forma and will form part of an inspection of learning for life and work. Schools will also be asked to consider providing refresher training at Key Stage 4 and post-16.

However, it is not sufficient to simply mandate. We have to support and engage schools in that important area to ensure high-quality provision for our young people. My Department has therefore commissioned CCEA and the Education Authority to develop appropriate resources and training to support the universal roll-out of CPR training. They will work closely with the British Heart Foundation and the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service. I will provide £70,000 of funding to support that work during the current financial year and further funding in future years, as required. Further information and guidance from my Department signposting that additional support and training will be provided to schools later this year.

CPR training is likely to be more impactful if it forms part of a coherent approach to teaching first aid across all key stages. That is a much more holistic approach to curriculum implementation. Mr Butler mentioned that he would like to see that training much earlier. I share his view, so I have progressed that. Consequently, CCEA will develop a first aid curriculum progression framework setting out how best to teach first aid at each stage of education, from primary 1 right through to Key Stage 4. That will give a big-picture view of the key concepts and significant steps that learners take as they develop their expertise in first aid during their time in school. That goes significantly further than the Bill and will provide a joined-up and coherent approach.

I recently attended the launch of the Ambulance Service's roll-out of its lifesaver ambassador training to initial teacher training programs. That will equip future educators to deliver emergency life support skills, including CPR and defibrillator awareness, to pupils.

I will now turn to the curriculum and comment on it. In common with the majority of high-performing school systems, the principles of limited prescription and maximum flexibility underpin the world-class Northern Ireland curriculum. The curriculum is designed specifically to reflect the importance of giving schools autonomy to choose their own curriculum approaches. That allows school leaders and teachers to build a curriculum with appropriate coverage, content, structure and sequencing for their pupils. By contrast, legislating for detailed lists of compulsory subject content does not in any way ensure that a topic will be well or consistently taught. Rather, ad hoc legal additions can lead to an overcrowded and poorly designed curriculum that lacks clear structure and coherence. Such high levels of prescription are generally associated with lower-performing school systems, where teachers' skills also tend to be weaker.

There are regular calls for legislation to make a wide range of issues compulsory in the statutory curriculum, such as CPR, smoking awareness, gambling-related harm and sexual and domestic violence. Those are really important and, indeed, potentially life-saving issues, but there is a need to protect our schools from curriculum overload, where content or issues are constantly added in response to meeting new societal demands, leading to schools becoming the answer to all of society's ills. That is why I do not necessarily think that introducing primary legislation is the right approach at the moment.

My officials have also considered the approach of amending the minimum content regulations. However, lists of topics simply become longer, and nothing is removed to accommodate the newcomers.

Chris Lyttle Alliance 4:45 pm, 8th November 2021

I thank the Minister for giving way briefly. This is a debate about an important principle. Does she not accept that there are some key areas that require standardisation in terms of curriculum delivery?

Michelle McIlveen DUP

I thank the Member for his intervention. I took a lot of time to consider that issue, and I spoke to officials about it. The approach that we have taken with regard to rolling out CPR aspects at the beginning of September seemed to be the most appropriate way to deliver it at this point.

The list of topics leads to breadth at the expense of depth and content at the expense of skills, with the result that teachers feel that they do not know how to support students in those emerging areas, and that goes beyond CPR. The Northern Ireland curriculum is explicitly designed to prevent such curriculum overload, and it aims to help our children and young people to gain the knowledge, skills and attributes that are needed for life in the 21st century.

The flexibility of the curriculum aims to empower schools to provide a curriculum that is adaptable and responsive to the needs of individual learners. By contrast, in topic-heavy curricula, the development of problem-solving, critical and creative thinking skills are inevitably squeezed. CPR is clearly an extremely important issue, which is why I am committed to ensuring that all pupils receive CPR training as part of the Key Stage 3 curriculum. As a consequence, I do not believe that it is absolutely necessary to introduce mandating primary legislation. Such an approach begins to unravel the coherent whole of the Northern Ireland curriculum. There is enormous scope in our education system to address the issue without recourse to legislation. Mr McGrath is aware of that, because we have had this conversation. Our focus must be to support schools to design and implement a high-quality curriculum that is tailored to meet the needs of our pupils and reflect a school's context and values rather than a mistaken pursuit of rigid uniformity.

Let me conclude by reiterating that I fully support the principles and intent of the Bill. We are all united in the aim of giving our young people the skills and confidence that they need in order to save a life. By educating and empowering young people around CPR training, we will improve the chance of surviving an out-of-hospital cardiac arrest. However, I ask Members to reflect on the ongoing work on this important matter. CPR is now an expectation in the curriculum for all pupils.

Photo of Robbie ButlerRobbie Butler UUP

I appreciate the Minister giving way right at the end. You are talking about the curriculum, and I was struck by a point that, I think, is important to make to you in that regard. We are very much concentrating on the Bill, which we should be today.

The purpose of the Bill is to teach children how to use CPR and AED as interventions. We are talking about that being in the curriculum from P1, and my other concern is the things that children consume. I am thinking of energy drinks and children's diets. I used to take energy drinks before I went out to play football. It was madness, absolute madness. Is anything on the preventative piece being looked at for the curriculum? The Bill covers the intervention piece, which is vital and has my full backing, but what about the preventative piece?

Photo of Michelle McIlveenMichelle McIlveen DUP

I appreciate the intervention. I am happy to have a discussion and maybe arrange a meeting with officials to see what we can do in that regard.

My Department's approach has been to engage with schools to build teachers' confidence, to build capacity and to provide training, resources and support that will, ultimately, provide better outcomes for young people. I might disagree with the Member to my right: he may measure the effectiveness of this place by the number of Bills that we pass; that is not necessarily my position.

Naturally, Members are committed to supporting the Bill, so I will, of course, work with officials over the coming weeks to consider how best to proceed.

Photo of Patsy McGlonePatsy McGlone Social Democratic and Labour Party

Thank you, Minister. Glaoim ar Colin McGrath le críoch a chur ar an díospóireacht. I call on Colin McGrath to conclude the debate.

Photo of Colin McGrathColin McGrath Social Democratic and Labour Party

I thank all Members for their contributions. As everybody correctly pointed out, this is an important issue. The debate gave us an opportunity to discuss providing something in our curriculum and communities that will save lives.

Many debates in this Chamber can be very frustrating. However, having a debate — this conversation and these discussions — on something that could make a real difference to people's lives and help people to survive is heartwarming. There was about 98% support around the Chamber, and there may be a few rough edges that we need to move on.

Rather than going into individual contributions, I will pick out some themes that are worth mentioning. Many Members provided a story. They had an experience or knew somebody who had a cardiac arrest, and there were various outcomes. We have those stories to tell in a Chamber with just 15 or 20 Members in it. Let us multiply that across our community and acknowledge that this is an issue that affects huge numbers of people. Therefore, we need to take our response to that seriously. We need to legislate, if we can, to try to resolve this issue and help people with those experiences.

Many Members spoke of being in a public place when a cardiac arrest took place. A key feature, as I said in my opening remarks, is that 80% of out-of-hospital cardiac arrests take place in the home. If 30, 40, 50 or more people are in a public place when somebody has a cardiac arrest, two or three people will jump to help. In the homes that those people go back to, there may be no one to jump to help and no one with the skills. That is when you have to lift the phone and seek help. As I said earlier, every additional minute lost will cause more problems for — potentially, even the death of — the person concerned. Each of those homes must have somebody with the skills to help.

Many Members mentioned community groups and sporting organisations. They have led the way with training, support and help for their members to get these important skills. However, why should they have to do that? I contend that, if they are sporting groups, they should focus on sport; if they are community groups, they should focus on their activities. We should have an education system that delivers to everybody the appropriate life skills to be able to get on with their daily lives but also to step in to help if somebody is having a cardiac arrest. The Bill would allow clubs and community groups to focus on their activities without having to spend time focusing on these skills.

Hopefully, most of the specific references to the Bill — for example, whether training could be an annual event rather than a one-off — will be examined at Committee Stage. I am absolutely up for that. I would love to see it happen. I tried to keep the information presented in the Bill as minimal as possible in order to get it through, because I wanted to try to gain as much support as possible from everybody, but if there is an appetite amongst Members to increase the amount of information or for pupils to have the training more than once at school, that will be welcomed. I did not want to put too much into the Bill in case it put people off. I wanted to get the legislation across the finishing line, so that is why I have kept it as basic as possible, but I am happy enough for it to be expanded on, if that is the wish of Members.

I accept what the Minister says about the curriculum and understand the predicament, but it also causes me to be a little bit suspicious. The reason that I am suspicious is this: if you say that you do not need to put it on the curriculum because it is happening anyway, if it is happening anyway, why do we not put it on the curriculum so that it is there? If it is in legislation, it cannot be taken away. If it is happening but is not in legislation, it can be changed.

I know that this Minister is completely dedicated to this happening. I have spoken to her and met her, and I know the work that she has brought forward thus far, which has taken us leaps and bounds beyond where we were previously. I was with your predecessor, and it was a brick wall. The person who comes after you could also be a brick wall, but if this is in law — if we decide that we want the Bill to be enacted — it will be much more difficult for somebody in the future to overturn that law, because that Minister would have to come back here to do so. I do not think that that would happen. Having observed the Minister's good work, I want to copper-fasten it so that the House is 100% behind her through our adding our legislative weight to it. I look forward to seeing the Bill progress.

I will finish with this. I said at the beginning that there are 90 Members of the Assembly and that, according to the current statistics, only one in 10 would survive a cardiac arrest. That is nine of the 90 Members. I was hoping that somebody might have corrected me or taken the point a step further. I have been taught CPR, and I know that a number of other Members have been trained in it, so we should be able to get that figure from one in 10 up to one in four. Through our skills and training — my first aid training, Robbie's Fire Service training and the skills of many others — we would save an additional 13 MLAs' lives. We can fight afterwards about who would survive. That is a debate for another day. We have the skills in here, however, so we would be increasing the chances of survival from one in 10 to one in four. Why should we not enable our communities to have the same fighting chance that we have?

I thank everybody for their contributions today, and I look forward to the Bill's Committee Stage.

Question put and agreed to. Resolved:

That the Second Stage of the Education (Curriculum) (CPR and AED) Bill [NIA 38/17-22] be agreed.

Photo of Patsy McGlonePatsy McGlone Social Democratic and Labour Party 5:00 pm, 8th November 2021

That concludes the Second Stage of the Education (Curriculum) (CPR and AED) Bill. The Bill stands referred to the Committee for Education.

Adjourned at 5.04 pm.